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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:27am
Forum: etree Subject: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

What happened to this site. And don't tell me it's all the downloaders. This has been a popular server for awhile. I assume some smartasses are hogging bandwidth and being selfish . Just like all the other public servers this has been trashed as well. The server won't even let you finish a download. And someone(bleblanc) suggested doing it late at night. WRONG! I get up in the morning to check out what's been finished and it shut down. What really amazes me is that no one seems to give a rats ass about it.

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Poster: NickSD Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:51am
Forum: etree Subject: wait a sec...

I understand that you're frustrated, but seriously man.. what right do you have to complain? This is a free site for all of us... it's a priviledge that we have access to it not a right... It will get better I'm sure but I just hate when I see people complain about stuff that they're given...

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Poster: Erich Date: Jan 15, 2003 10:47am
Forum: etree Subject: 100 complaints from you. Got to be kidding!!!!

arent you the same guy that posted about 5 new threads bitching bout show speed before?

People complain about so much these days but really this is just ridiculous. hit it with an ftp program, leave the download all night. are you that impatient that 3 hours for one song matters? I couldnt give less of a shit since im happy not having to wait 3 weeks to get a show on a trade. I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if you said youre here mostly for DMB shows.

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 10:56am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 100 complaints from you. Got to be kidding!!!!

Maybe you should know what you're talking about before you start yapping. I'm not a DMB fan(I have nothing against the band or their fans). And if you were paying attention(I know that's not easy for some people) I had a problem with my computer and wanted to find out if it was the server or my setup that was the issue. There were over 40 looks at my post but nobody would take a minute to answer my question about the speeds they were d/l at. take a deep breath now and relax.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffmedlhuber Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:13am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 100 complaints from you. Got to be kidding!!!!

Come on man you need to relax. I've found this site to be very helpful and have never heard anyone with a hostile tone in their voice, everything has been positive up to this point. If you dont like the site, I suggest maybe it is not for you and you move along. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 100 complaints from you. Got to be kidding!!!!

I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Bandwidth

And someone(bleblanc) suggested doing it late at night

Yup, that was me, and I downloaded a gig today too via a single connection FTP. Imagine that, I get up for work, set up a download, and then come home to see it's 75% complete and I'm able to listen to the first 2 discs.

Or, maybe I should complain because I can't listen to disc 3?

What really amazes me is that no one seems to give a rats ass about it.

Keep things in perspective adawg... The people around here do this because they like doing it, not because they have to. Frankly, I'm stunned at how smooth things run around here. Jon rocks, and he's spent half of his vacation working on making things better. Diana keeps track of about 85 things all at once, every time I send her a question, she knows exactly what's going on.

Assumptions like yours above discourage them from wanting to help the project progress. Before you attack them, how about remembering the fact that nothing is asked of you to enjoy the music that is here, nor anyone else.

Chill out. If you have a suggestion, keep it civil. I'm sorry that you can't get 30K/sec anymore. These folks are working on making it a more fair system for all, give them some credit.

They're all well aware of the fact that bandwidth is a problem right now. It's #1 on everyone's mind, and there isn't any magic solution that will give everyone 80K/sec. In the meantime, like Jon says, we'd appreciate some patience.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-16 05:56:19

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:42am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

don't tell me it's all the downloaders

It is, at least in part.

This has been a popular server for awhile.

Ever since the appearance of dmb2002-12-21 the Archive has been hammered persistently.

I assume some smartasses are hogging bandwidth and being selfish

I think a lot of people are using download managers to establish more than one connection per file.

What really amazes me is that no one seems to give a rats ass about it

I'm not sure what makes you say that. The Archive staff is working very hard to resolve this problem, but the downloaders are relentless (as one would expect them to be).

Your patience is appreciated.

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Poster: Deestheman Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Hey, I'm new here. Just a couple of quick ques. You said that the servers have been jammed since the addition of 12/21/02. Is this something that frequently happens when popular shows are added, or is this an extreme case. Also, many people talk about people setting up DL programs to set up all night DL's. Is there anyway to prevent that? Is everyone aware of the problems that the DL programs cause? The way I see it, we're getting free music. If you can't stay up to DL it, it will be there tomorrow. Disconnect and let someone else a try. My 2 cents.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:55pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Overnight Downloads...

Also, many people talk about people setting up DL programs to set up all night DL's. Is there anyway to prevent that?

We don't want to prevent all night downloads, because that helps spread out the bandwidth over the day. We're encouraging folks to download at night since historically that is the lull time of day and the best time to get decent speed. It's great, as long as they use a single FTP connection.

However, that idea has been well spread and it looks like the full bandwidth is being used 24/7 now.

What we don't want, and are working at preventing, is the folks who connect multiple times at once from the website (http download). Some of them connect up to 8 times to speed up their download, but it kills the speed for everyone else.

-Brad

This post was modified by bleblanc57 on 2003-01-16 05:55:52

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Poster: ssamadhi97 Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:56pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Overnight Downloads...

sounds very good to me. maybe the inclusion of a mechanism to put a temporary ban (15 minutes? 60?) on ips which attempt to connect multiple times (say >2) would be a good move as well..

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Poster: Jesse James Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

so if we can pin point the problem (dmb02-12-21)
well then why don't we just get rid of it? and all that other Dave for that matter, there are far too many DMB download sites out there already. And this bandwidth thing has gotten way worse than most people think (when i first came here i used to get 80kb+), I only come to the archive when I am looking for some new talent, bands that I have yet to hear. I think given DMB's popularity w/ the kids, should be means for his own archive site. That would give up enough bandwidth so people can d/l something new. I mean how many Dave shows really sound different? Do we really need them all here? Let's keep the archive for the bands who need more recognition and fans, DMB is not starving. My two cents

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 16, 2003 12:25am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Well, in some ways I agree with you, but the truth is that this is an Archive. While DMB might have lots of exposure now, in 200 years they might not. While it's nice that new shows are available reliably here, I think the real purpose is for future generations to be able to access these concerts - so they're not lost.

Not archiving popular bands would be like the local library not having copies of the New York Times because you can get it any where.

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Poster: Jesse James Date: Jan 16, 2003 12:31am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

OK, well then here is another semi-good idea. How about of we instill the old etree standard rule of waiting for a show to be over a month old before it is imported to the download servers? Or if you wanted to look at it in terms of being a archive maybe only 2001 and older shows should be available on the archive? I like the month thing better, but whatever? Does anyone have any objections to waiting? That way the real die hard fans would have gotten the "needed" show for some other source of bandwidth. Food for thought huh?
P.S. no disrespect to DMB fans, I may have sounded a bit harsh in my earlier post:-)

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Poster: bobZemuda Date: Jan 16, 2003 6:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Thank you for allowing me to read the stupidest thing I've read all day.

I'm feeling really blessed.

Have you heard of Mozart? Beethoven maybe?

Did these guys have archives?

Oh, and before it is said that it's not the same thing. it most definitely is. That was popular music of the time.

They'll know who DMB is in 200 years, and it won't be because of archive.org.

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 10:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Are you familiar with Bluegrassbox. It used to be a great place to get and give up shows. But because people see it out there they become pigs. They can't just go on and d/l a show and disconnect. No, thet set it up so they're computer is d/l non-stop. So they blow it for everybody. You can't go near that server anymore. I'm a big trader and believe that is still the best way to spread shows. I've also done a lot of BnPs. What will solve this problem? Limited access,cutting back on the servers. I'm curious why GDLIVE does not run into this situation. And trust me that's a high traffic server. I do appreciate the effort that's been done and would gladly help to improve this site. Maybe folks should be limited to one show a day. There has to be some moderation on the downloaders part.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbleblanc Date: Jan 15, 2003 9:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Limited access

This would obviously fix it so that speeds would increase for those logged in, but in my opinion this would defeat the Universal Access to human knowledge goal. Some folks would have a lot of trouble getting in to download anything, whereas now, with some patience, everyone gets in and gets whatever they want.

-Brad

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Poster: hoyt Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:59am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

<
I think a lot of people are using download managers to establish more than one connection per file. >

Can you not configure Apache to allow only one connection per file per ip?

--hoyt

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 12:35pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

I appreciate your response. Excuse my ignorance ,but please elaborate on what the setting is your talking about.

This post was modified by adawg on 2003-01-15 20:35:03

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 12:34pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Sorry Hoyt, thought you were talking to me.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 15, 2003 1:01pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Hoyt - if you know of a good solution for doing this please let me know. Right now we're trying to set up mod_throttle or mod_limitipconn, but if there is an easier way, by all means enlighten me :) Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: Jan 15, 2003 11:50pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

I think mod_throttle is a good idea, throttle bandwidth on ftp as well. Limit the number of connections and bandwidth. But also advertise the p2p efforts that you're working on to provide a little bit of "carrot", ie "Bandwidth for downloading by ftp and http is limited to Xkbps, there are no limits on bandwidth for using bittorrent".

The other suggestion I have is to make low quality versions (mp3, ogg vorbis) of the files available. I at least choose not to download files sometimes because of their size. I'm not familiar w/ most of the bands on the IA but downloading for hours on end to listen to a few tracks and then deciding I'm not interested is not efficient from my point as an end user, nor for the IA's bandwidth situation. The movies section of the site provides "preview" quality files, I think it would be a good idea to do this for the audio as well.

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Poster: hoyt Date: Jan 15, 2003 1:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

I'd say you're right with the mod_limitipconn module. The person that developed that did it for the same reason you need it. I've not set it up before, so I wouldn't be of much help more than to say: yeah, do that :)

The mod_throttle though would limit you to a certain bandwidth, I wouldn't think that would be what you want. Then someone on a 56k would be alloted the same bandwidth as someone on an OC-3.

--hoyt

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Jan 16, 2003 6:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

mod_limitipconn is now enabled on etree02. Please post feedback.

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Poster: Captain Video Date: Jan 15, 2003 7:58pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

Greetings All, I have noticed a significant decrease in Download speed over the last 2-3 weeks, at 30K/sec, I could get one show a night and that was fine, now it seems to take days to get one show in its entirety. I am of the understanding that as long as people are downloading one file at a time, things should flow smoothly...I have been on different sites that have regulated that function, as well as Hammering, by shutting of the offending party. I can't imagine it being easy to modify such a monstrous site, but I do believe the moderators are trying. If it truly is just a bandwidth issue, would more servers be the solution??? Maybe we all ought to pony up a few bucks to buy the equipment that would speed things up. Just my own two cents worth....have a sparkling day...Kev

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Poster: adawg Date: Jan 15, 2003 10:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 3 hours to d/l 1 song. Got to be kidding!!!!

I agree. I'm sure donations would not be a problem. But how about if everyone just backed off on multiple file d/ls. The music is not going anywhere. I can't even set up for session queue at night. It's so slow it craps out. I have dsl connect.

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